tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3432817549859327458.post9157071306133663366..comments2024-01-05T20:26:44.857-08:00Comments on Thinking Again: Mark Wallace Never Commits Himself? Part Three: Above the Fraymark wallacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10047292022080114501noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3432817549859327458.post-32254722066639786472008-12-13T19:46:00.000-08:002008-12-13T19:46:00.000-08:00Joe,No real need to belabor this point, but yes, o...Joe,<BR/><BR/>No real need to belabor this point, but yes, of course women can be acerbic and confrontational (though when was the last time you heard a man described as "acerbic"?) Moreover, I think that poets hanging around saying nice, congratulatory things to each other is just about as stupid as headbashing debate, though both approaches have their perverse pleasures, clearly. I don't have a problem with your prose style, macho or no, what I take issue with is your description of the world of poetry as a kind of traditionally masculine brawl. I don't have a problem with your <I>style</I>, as much as the content of your argument. <BR/><BR/>I don't doubt that you didn't want to get into gender in this conversation, but in all friendliness, gender is all over the implications for the kind of communication you suggest you're interested in.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if I prefer blogs to listservs...both forms work better when the people talking to each other actually have some kind of shared context. I admit I like blogs because I can moderate the creepy weirdo comments and because it's a space I can control. On the other hand, listservs are interesting for exactly the opposite reason.K. Lorraine Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03974374662095094031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3432817549859327458.post-8626615196442027582008-12-13T18:30:00.000-08:002008-12-13T18:30:00.000-08:00Hi Lorraine --Listen, this has already been embarr...Hi Lorraine --<BR><BR>Listen, this has already been embarrassing enough, and I've pretty much said what I had to say, so maybe it'll be over soon. But since you mention gender here, which I specifically said I didn't want to get into, I just want to say: I'm a man, and this is a sample of my prose style. I don't particularly think it's "macho," but if you do, I can't do much about it. Women, too, can be acerbic, and sometimes have disputes and debates -- when they do, should we call them "macha"? What's to be gained?<BR><BR>Productive conversation is what it's all about, and I think any way to get there is what blogs should try and foster. I don't like them myself; I've always preferred listservs. But this is how poets talk to each other these days, so I stuck a toe in the water. I'd much prefer, as you say, to swim in complicated and non-combative streams where people interact in strange and quiet ways. And I'd wave pom poms for you any time!Joe Safdiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10146108321237585329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3432817549859327458.post-52508044274361886052008-12-13T16:06:00.000-08:002008-12-13T16:06:00.000-08:00Describing the world of poetry as a fray strikes m...Describing the world of poetry as a fray strikes me as being inaccurate, limiting, and macho. Really? If that were the case, than I’d have blown poetry off immediately and stayed purely in politics. Or I would have just gone and married some Washington, DC policy wonk and planned lavish catered dinner parties. One reason I like poetry is because it allows for ways of interacting, and being confident and assertive that aren’t about men yelling at each other and beating each other up while I wave pom poms from the sidelines. The world of poetry isn’t a brawl or a sports match, even though I think some people would like it to be. It’s much more complicated.<BR/><BR/>As I’ve noted on my blog and elsewhere, poetry and extended art communities have shown me that there ways of living in, interacting with, and responding to the world that are different than many of the values I grew up with and encountered elsewhere. The public-policy word of Washington, DC was a fray, and most of the classes I took while studying political science were a fray. Some parts of blogland are a fray, but blogland is hardly a complete representation of the world of poetry. I sometimes enjoy macho bouts of verbal showmanship—I find them energizing and sometimes I learn from them. But they can be tiresome and absurd, especially if they’re approached as some kind of a formal requirement for productive conversation.K. Lorraine Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03974374662095094031noreply@blogger.com